Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its fractious user community to live in a “big tent” after a Debian developer objected to the company’s sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its political position with regard to these two projects.
Hyprland, a Wayland compositor, is led by a “toxic and hateful community,” Beaupré observed, and Omarchy, a Linux distribution, comes from David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), a controversial figure in the Ruby and Linux communities.
This definitely had a negative impact on my view of framework, can’t say I’d buy from them again.
Same. Considering sending an email to tell them this.
Already have, along with my concerns about the outsized money going to essentially DHH events.
Might even sell my FW, I don’t think I want to be associated with the brand at all.
being antifascist could only ever be “polarizing” if the person getting offended is an anti-antifascist aka a Nazi
I think it depends very much on what you think is fascism.
Lemmy users sometimes think using harch language is “fascism” because they are young and dont know what real fascism was like.
That being said, I havent read about what the Hyprland devs have been saying or doing, so sure, maybe they are bad people. I will go read about it now.
Edit: I looked into it and its not fascism, as usual. It seems to be the usual stuff that is being called fascism when its not. Its all about how they moderate their forum and how they talk to people there. This is not fascism. Treating people rudely is not fascism. Making bad jokes is not fascism either.
They may be dousches but we wont have another Stalin on our hands from this direction, dont worry. :)
FW is giving an openly racist and fascist person money for a project
That’s what people care about. Not the moderation behavior of the project
Yeah but like I wrote, the definition of racist and fascist here is probably very stretched into silly levels. As usual on Lemmy and I guess other social media.
“Probably very stretched.” “I guess”
Why not support right-wing goons as a default position when reading takes time and effort? Umberto who?Just read the blog of DHH. It’s not stretched at all
Kindof amusing to see people call “purity testing” on people who object to someone who’s quoted as being upset by checks notes a lack racial or ethnic purity.
[Sarcasm] C’mon everyone, can’t we just get along and hold hands with racists and other people who consider the rest of us subhuman? As long as what they’re doing doesn’t bother me personally you’re all overreacting and fragmenting this
nazi barcommunity!Edits: fiddling with phrasing :-\
I love how they always portray projects like this as “politically polarizing”. You look inside and it’s always just plain old not-polarizing misogyny. Really shows where this “news” outlets stand.
The media has been complicit in all of this by sanewashing all of the insane shit that’s constantly happening.
People here complaining about purity testing even though really it’s just poison testing.
The standard isn’t even if it’s pure in ideology it’s to test is not poisonous.
The problem here isn’t that Framework failed to keep track of the ideology espoused by every major developer on the projects they contributed to or endorsed, which, to be honest, isn’t something I’d expect of them. The problem (as usual for a corporation) is how they handled complaints. Trying to sweep stuff under the rug in the Internet age just results in someone setting the rug on fire. If instead, Framework’s response had been “We’re sorry, we didn’t know, we won’t give money or free advertising to any projects this guy is involved with from now on,” the whole mess would have died down by now except for a few people grumbling about how they should do more research before sending money out.
I’ll admit I’m not up to date on the hyprland/vaxry lore – but I don’t understand the level of outrage based on this article…
I’m also not sure why the sponsorship of a software project is necessarily being treated as a 100% endorsement of both the maintainers and their alleged views.
I’m also not sure if infighting and purity testing will help the movement(s) right now. Once it’s the norm, sure, but it’s still a relatively fringe movement within the industry.
Edit (2025-10-15@20:14): At the time of writing my comment, I was both unaware (and uninformed) on the DHH side of this topic. While I still think the level of outrage is maybe a melodramatic, the push back seems more warranted than it initially seemed to me. I still don’t know much about DHH beyond Rails (and even then, not much); but from what I’ve seen since my comment, the response is more understandable.
Most of the discourse was about Omarchy/DHH, not just Hyprland, though that was a part of it. It is not purity testing to block people who don’t work well with others or are hateful like DHH from a community. If you want to bring people who want us dead into a community then everyone else is going to leave
The main problem is
- Np contributed to and glazes Omarchy
- People wonder why DHH was sponsored with hardware
- Generic response about “big tent” ideology to include everyone - including racists and transphobes like DHH
- People are upset because they don’t want to be in a Nazi Bar
- NP makes twitter post about how people want to ascribe values to him he doesn’t hold, that he’s pro immigrant and pro lgbt
- Np responds in forum thread that they reviewed hyprland and determined that theyd improved their moderation and were ok to sponsor (monetarily)
- Framework responds they’ll make a blog post clarifying their sponsorships
- Blog post coincidentally excludes omarchy
- People question it and basically just get a “we will get that updated” response
- I still dont see it there
You cant claim to be pro immigrant and pro lgbt when you actively invite white supremacists and transphobes into the community and then try to avoid responsibility for that by not commenting or not retracting support or not clarifying how you’d avoid it going forward
The project may not be political (it is) but the people who use and support the project definitely are. If you want to kick out the community by inviting Nazis, then all that will be left once those people leave will be nazis. And if you knowingly collaborate with Nazis, you are a nazi.
I still dont see it there
Because the “update” to the blog post was:
Note that this list does not include products sent for marketing use or R&D use
As a way to not talk about DHH/Omarchy directly, or the promotion they were doing (which was many times more than anything else they were talking about).
if I dip a pH strip in my drinking water and it indicates my water is acidic, am I not entitled to stop drinking from that source because it failed my purity test?
Let’s not confuse “entitled” with “justified”. Of course you are legally entitled to boycott whatever you want, nobody seems to question that. The issue is whether or not you can be legitimately criticism for it.
Suppose that you had 20 glasses, you tested 4 of them and found that 2 were “too acidic”. Are you then justified in drinking the other 18 glasses?
The reality is that you have probably personally supported people who are far more egregious than the subjects here. Abusers, murderers, rapists, etc… Is your support of them an endorsement of their actions? Is your/societies providing medical care to these people an endorsement of their actions?
No. We can parse between what actions we endorse and what actions we don’t, because we are rational beings. Or rather some of us are.
it just sounds like you’re bending over backwards to make trans and racialized people drink polluted water. and you’re trying to convince the rest of us that the water is just fine actually because you have a reverse osmosis system installed (being cis or white)
If we deleted everything written by insufficiently pure developers, we wouldn’t have a Linux desktop. Especially if we count the ones that were smart enough to not bring up anything political in public.
Not a fan of DHH, but then you delete Rails then there’s no GitHub, GitLab, Mastodon, and many many other things given how popular Rails is, and that’s just that one guy.
If you include all the sketchy stuff that happens in the supply chain mining the minerals, processing, assembly all the way up to the final computer product, you just can’t morally justify supporting any manufacturer either.
This really doesn’t do anything useful other than feeling good to not support one of those guys. If anything it just adds extra political drama that feeds into a much bigger worldwide division problem.
The people who pretend that they can keep politics out of their life are always the people who are benefiting from the current political system. Nobody else in the world is so ignorant.
The developers of those projects would have just chosen a different language if Rails never existed.
@Max_P @stewie410 This is just wrong. Taking a stand against things like this causes change for the better in the long run. Rails will survive without DHH, like Linux survived without Reiserfs and MySQL survived after Larry Ellison. There may be some pain involved, but we owe it to ourselves to tread the better path, and make bad people just socially unacceptable.
See also: javascript and Eich
Ah, to live in a world without JavaScript and weird, Nazi crypto dipshits 🥰
Þe comments devolved into flamewars, but it boils down to: if you take money I spend wiþ you and give it to people who want to oppress me, I’m going to stop buying your product.
Þe issue isn’t Framework using Hyprland or Omarchy; it’s þat þey’re giving computers and money - material support - and moral support by talking þose projects up in social media (especially Omarchy).
Þere’s a big difference between using FOSS led by a politically controversial figure, and sending the figure money. Especially when þat money derives from customers said figure openly claims to want to oppress.
Using thorn in English is a pathetic bid to appear smart.
Yeah, sometimes its not practical avoiding certain projects (see fucking JavaScript), but promoting and funding is a major barrier and red flag…
Offtopic, but whats up with the cyrilic looking character you are using? Is it to fuck with bots or something else entirely?
I’m amazed that they haven’t backtracked this yet. They’re just cool losing all those customers.
idk, looking at twitter, there seems to be a pretty good number of fascist techbros who are congratulating framework on this
i guess framework doesn’t mind the change in audience…
I mean, its twitter. Its almost entirely fascist tech bros there.
Bots pretending to be tech bros*
Twitter is basically millions of Groks in a trenchcoat at this point.
I don’t believe any kind of analysis that depends on measuring sentiment on social media given that it’s trivially easy to run hundreds or thousands of accounts on a 5 year old graphics card and some vibe coding.
Tech companies and preventable controversies: name a more iconic duo.
TL;DR for just updates since the initial story: Basically say that they believe Hyprland cleaned up after having an initial problem and totally ignores all the stuff about DHH, despite that seeming to be the biggest problem people had with what they’ve been doing.
The weird thing for me is the financial support coming from Framework to Hyprland. It would be one thing if Framework was working with Hyprland to test compatibility and functionality on their machines and do specialized bug testing. They could kind of justify that from a purely technical stance.
But the fact that they picked a very niche project for no apparent reason to support with a significant monthly financial contribution is so strange. There are numerous other niche distros/projects that aren’t mired in controversy that Framework could have worked with, (Alpine, Void, ElementaryOS, etc.) so why Hyprland/Omarchy?
Very disappointed. I’ve been pushing Framework computers very strongly for friends and family over the last year, plus I’ve been planning on getting one to replace my aging Thinkpad. Now I am going to hold off until the dust settles on this.
Omarchy uses Hyprland, so I guess they started by promoting Omarchy and maybe DHH asked them to sponsor Hyprland
Supporting Hyprland definitely looks like a mistake, they weren’t aware of what went on around there.
They probably should have gone with supporting Niri and maybe Cosmic instead.
I agree, but then why would they not retracted their support? If it really was an honest mistake and they weren’t aware of the situation, I would think they would apologize, explain that they didn’t know, pull their support, and issue a statement about the kinds of values they want to promote in the FOSS world.
But instead, they have doubled down, the CEO himself. It’s very strange and concerning.
Sort of.
They basically said they didn’t know about the issues with hyprland, they recently looked into them and to them in looks like hyprland has changed enough to be supported.
But, they were silent on the DHH. That part is the serious concern.
It was a yellow flag when Framework invested heavily into an affordable non-repairable, non-upgradable desktop designed for AI developers. “Let them make money,” they said, as Framework positioned itself as a Trojan Horse to the ubiquitization of harmful AI.
This was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I was saving up for a Framework 16, but I’ll just stick with my Thinkpad and get the next Steam Deck for gaming. It’s really a shame that such an important company would support transphobia and white supremacy, not just rhetorically but financially, as Hyperland gets ₤600 a month from them and DHH gets ₤24,000 via Rails.
I know this will be a controversial take since Framework is so beloved, but that is just how I personally will choose to spend my money.
I agree with your conclusion and I abhor Framework promoting either of these two projects.
But the APU in the desktop has, I suspect, a real reason for having nonreplaceable RAM. If I understand correctly, they can’t achieve 8000 mt/s memory speed or the wider memory bus with replaceable RAM. And since that memory is shared with the GPU, that speed becomes important for gaming or other GPU tasks. Hence why 6400 mt/s seems to be the max memory speed for a lot of the zen5 desktop chips, at least in prebuilts
I have that chip in my laptop (the “AI” Max Pro 395+) and I don’t ever use it for LLM shit. It’s a very performant and efficient CPU, and shockingly good for gaming too.
So even tho I hate the “ai” branding it’s actually a very very good CPU and GPU
Framework tried to design a version that worked with SODIMM with AMD but the performance was seriously hampered, and the plan was dropped.
yeah, like… They genuinely tried.
I got several beefs with framework, but this isn’t one of them.
I don’t support the views of the endorsed projects, but surely a better reaction would be to suggest alternatives instead of just screaming for outright dismissal? I keep reading that “omarchy is just a bunch of scripts” and “hyperland is just one tiling window manager”. If that’s the case, there probably are better alternatives no? Or if it’s as easy as described why not fork it?
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is not productive, IMO
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is
not productivehow internet outrage operates, IMOFTFY
And yeah, Framework is one of the few manufacturers designing specifically for Linux compatibility and repairability, and omarchy/hyprland Devs are apparently shitty people. If you think they shouldn’t be associated, suggest a different project not run by (possibly) literal Nazis instead of foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently… doesn’t seem that difficult.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests. They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
I don’t think we should work with scum like DHH and vaxry just because some asshole lib might accuse us of purity tests
If “not working with people who are maniacs who want you dead” is a purity test I’m dusting off my Inquisition book
The entire ecosystem is full of purity tests. You don’t have a CoC? Must be a Nazi! Don’t use the right license? Probably a capitalist! You use systemd? Must be a Apple insider! You don’t use systemd? Fuck off you troglodyte. Oh my you said “no politics”? Definitely a lib! What’s that 🏳️🌈 flag? OMG what a woke commie.
Everyone draws the line somewhere else. Just because you draw it at DHH doesn’t mean you’re better.
TL;DR;
It’s weird to be upset at people for having personal boundaries/morals/ethics.
Using “purity test” like a pejorative, because using a more accurate term makes your argument sound bad, is a bad faith approach.
You say “purity tests” like it’s some sovcit term imbued with magical powers, like DEI or woke.
Headcanon replace it with “personal ethics and morals” and you might see how some of those arguments are really just people having boundaries.
An example of what i mean.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
vs
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: personal ethics and morals.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
See how the rest of that statement sounds without the bad faith, magic-word interpretation ?
I’m not expecting any good faith arguments in response, so don’t worry, this was a just-in-case kind of thing.
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there. Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
But don’t worry, I don’t expect a coherent response. This was a just-in-case kind of thing 😉
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there.
I mean, yes… that is what i did… i explained as i did it.
Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
Was this a preface to actually doing this? is there a part of the text missing ?
Yeah good luck with that. The righteous left doesn’t want empathetic coexistence with alternative views any more than the immoral right does.
DHH has fairly normal right wing views. Nobody has been able to point me to anything so objectionable that should mean he is excluded from the community. The worst I could find is that he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British, which I don’t think is an out-there idea.
These inclusive communities have to learn to be more actually inclusive. It’s ok to ban him if he’s harassing people due to their political views in the Ruby community, but it looks like all he did was post some moderately right-wing views on his blog.
Not going to hold my breath though.
I don’t know anything about the Hyprland guy but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a similar story.
he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British
Interesting choice of words.
https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-thought/
If ethnic cleansing constitutes “fairly normal right-wing views,” then right wingers have no place in polite, civil society because they support a violent, genocidal ideology bent on destroying Western Civilization. How can we have empathetic coexistence, for example, in a government that forcably disappears legal non-white immigrants and sends them to labor camps via federally funded masked thugs operating in unmarked vans? How can anyone peacefully coexist with a group that only wants to make space in society for white Americans and is willing to achieve those ends violently and extralegally?
It didn’t used to be this way. Right-wingers can go back to peaceful coexistence when they put aside the supremacist and nationalist viewpoints and return to advocating for low taxes and small government without excluding entire groups of people. But make no mistake, the Right – the intolerant ones – have to change first. The fact that you think that this is “normal” is a chilling indictment of modern society. At this rate, in 10 years you’ll think unelected leaders, concentration camps and death by firing squad is “normal” too.
Thanks for posting the blogpost – when I checked this thread originally (and the article), I seemed to have missed the focus on DHH. Admittedly, I just don’t know much about him – though, I’m starting to get an idea why this blew up so much.
The worst I could find is that he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British, which I don’t think is an out-there idea.
If that doesn’t sound racist to you, I have bad news for you.
No I don’t think it’s racist to want to live in a city that is predominantly occupied by similar people to you. I think his stats are wrong - London is still mostly British people (at least it was when I last went). But imagine if it was like 95% Indian people. That would a huge change and a big cultural shift and yes I think it’s ok to object to that with instantly becoming racist.
No I don’t think it’s racist to want to live in a city that is predominantly occupied by similar people to you. I think his stats are wrong
Do you not understand that when he says only a third of people in London are native brits he means WHITE? you either playing dumb or just have awful comprehension lmao.
I don’t coexist with people who literally want my friends and loved ones (and people I don’t even know, because it doesn’t really matter) dead.
Good policy, but where did he ever say that?
what does “London not being like 90s” mean to you?
Given that I’ve never seen you in the Ruby, Rails, or Sinatra communities, I’m going to guess that you aren’t actually part of this conversation. Also, you’ve been fairly obvious in your cryptofascism since this Lemmy instance was set up; you’re one of several users that have ensured that programming.dev has a fairly bad federated reputation, and I’m not sure that anybody really cares whether you’re included given that you don’t appear to publish Free Software or anything else useful.
you’ve been fairly obvious in your cryptofascism
Wow first time I’ve been accused of fascism! Quite riduclous.
I merely want to hang black people from trees while wearing a white robe! Why does THE LEFT have to be so intolerant?!
Yeah that would be reasonable if he actually did want to hang black people from trees.
He’s literally spreading “great replacement” rethoric. If you can’t see his racism, I got news for you.
Isn’t “great replacement” a conspiracy that this is a deliberately plan by ethnic minorities? I don’t see him claiming that anywhere.
His numbers are suss but the demographic change in London is dramatic (not as much as he claimed but still). Hopefully Wikipedia is an acceptable source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic_makeup_of_London_over_time_in_age_groups.gif
So you do think the great replacement is happening, it just isn’t intentional. About those news…
If you’re asking if I know how to read a chart on Wikipedia, the answer is yes.
Ah, is it time to play dumb already?
Reading a chart and understanding it are different things, a further different thing is understanding what it means in context.
This is a good book for learning the ins and outs of how to understanding statistical data in general.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics
It does come at it through the lens of intentionally deceptive practices but It’s a good general introduction as well.
